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An Interesting exchange of words on a slashdot forum originally about verizon/at&t giving up their phone logs without warrants. This might seem a little off topic, but I just love it when someone gets put in their place when they have such a narrow view on things. I only extracted 3 posts from the whole exchange of words
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by turbofisk (602472)
Of course there is a lot of truth in this… France did have a lot of presence in Iraq and made a bundle, but the *people* are pissed about something else. Saying that the world is pissed out of envy and money is just pure bs. There is the whole spectrum your carelessly choose to ignore. How about invading a sovereign country, killing thousands of civilians and generally destabilizing the middle east even more while doing some cowboy shit about terrorists are behind every stone and thus any measure is ok. Generally you have polarized the world as well, either your with us or your against us. Saddam was a dictator and we can’t have that… All while supporting other countries who are run by dictatorship. Of the top of my head: Using capital punishment on your own citizens is a biggie. Degrading taliban and terrorists to Enemy combatant and thus denying them the rights of the Geneva Convention. No trials either. By doing this, imo you have let the terrorists destroy what you are trying to defend - freedom. And at the same time those who are whistleblowers get the sharp end of the stick for doing just that, ensuring that illegal stuff doesn’t pass. I’m from Sweden and there is a general resentment that just wasn’t there during the Clinton era.

by baldass_newb
“Just about every other nation looks at the U.S. in a bad light these days because we’re prudish, invasive, annoying, and hipocritical.”

Hate to break it to you, champ, but it’s been that ways since 1789. It ain’t going to change anytime soon.
We’ve liberated the French two times and they were selling Stinger missiles to Saddam during the arms embargo via the ‘oil-for-food’ program, promulgating the largest fraud in world history.
We cut off their cash cow…of course they’re pissed.

Same things happening with Russian and Iran.
You don’t think this hatred is idealogical or that these countries don’t spy on their own citizens, do you?
Or are you a naive libera…oh, nevermind.

by orzetto (545509)
We’ve liberated the French two times […]

No you didn’t. To begin with I do not think you (singular) served in both WWI and WWII, so stop bragging about “We”.

In WWI the US had hardly a modern army to speak of. The US entered the war late and did little. It may be debated whether they tipped the balance, but it is a fact that Germany and Austria-Hungary were already at the brink of collapse in 1917. And anyway, Germany in WWI was just any nation at war, no better or worse than the other ones. They had not even started the war (Austria-Hungary did), so what’s the point in talking of “liberation”? From what? In any case, the US sacrificed very little compared to the British, yet I don’t hear the British whine so much about the French being ungrateful.

In WWII, most of the work to win the war was done by the Soviets. On any reasonable scale (soldiers dead, enemy soldiers killed, land lost, land gained, overall number of dead, …), the Soviet Union sacrificed much more than the US, even counting in the Pacific theatre where only the US were active. The eastern front saw the two most bloody battles in human history at the same time (Leningrad and Stalingrad), each three times larger than the one in third place (battle of Wuhan). Had the US stayed out, France would have been liberated by the USSR instead of the USA, or it would simply have risen up and taken back sovereignty when Berlin would eventually have fallen to the Red Army.

So cut the “we saved the world”-crap. The reason the US emerged as a superpower after WWII was that they had gone through two world wars without a single enemy soldier on their terrain, and had entered only when the outcome was almost guaranteed. Just like Switzerland, the US found out that not having armies marching through your country is beneficial to the economy.

[…] the largest fraud in world history.

According to Transparency International, the most corrupt politician ever was Suharto, dictator of Indonesia. Do I have to tell you who installed the guy, let him carry genocidal policies including but not limited to the invasion of East Timor?

You don’t think this hatred is idealogical or that these countries don’t spy on their own citizens, do you?

I don’t “hate America”, I think people (Americans, French, Congolese, Tikopians) who refuse to hear criticism of their own country, stick by the motto “good or bad it’s my country”, or trust the government (any government) are stupid and a threat to democracy.

Billy

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